Minutes for Licensing and Regulatory Committee Spokespersons with Representatives of the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Trade meeting, Jan 25 2011, 10.00AM official page

Members and Officers are requested to give notice of any personal or prejudicial interest and the nature of that interest, relating to any item on the agenda in accordance with the relevant Code of Conduct.

Background - a short information only report is to be considered by the Licensing and Regulatory Committee on 17^th January 2011. Consultation will continue in 2011 with a further report scheduled for the second half of the year.

 

Mr Jarman has raised the following:

 

“This matter is on the L&R (Licensing and Regulatory) Committee agenda for 17 January 2011. Although further consideration of the implementation of this Act has been postponed the policy attached to medical and physical exemptions will be dealt with by L&R.

 

The only outstanding question is what happens to the person who strains himself playing football / tennis or whatever. That injury would probably ‘settle’ soon. It ought not to be the case that a driver cannot work until he obtains a medical appointment, and an exemption process is endured A medical appointment cannot be obtained at once (doctors are there to treat not just certify); the expense involved may be significant? A strain is not medically urgent, it maybe physical not medical anyway.

 

It was mentioned at a trade meeting in October that self certification for a period for these reasons should be allowed, (the writer did this for himself anyway last year). The suggestion was looked on with astonishment!

 

(a)   Drivers are licensed, they are overwhelmingly responsible

(b)   They want custom

(c)   They will not take time off unless essential (they are on piece work, not salaries)

(d)   There is no complaint from the disabled at numbers of drivers feigning injury/ sickness. There is great peer pressure to carry the disabled.

(e)   Salaried employees have a statutory right to self certify, and make hay with that, piece workers would not and to do so would be self defeating.

 

The trade was astonished / hurt / incensed that this was not readily agreed. Clearly the matter must be brought to the attention of members, although the relevant points are listed here already.”

 

David Packard and Mark Toohey to respond

At the last meeting of the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Trade Joint Working Group held on 7 December 2010, it was agreed that a Sub Group of the Working Party be formed to meet separately together with Officers from Sefton CVS to consider the implications of the Equality Act 2010 for the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Trade and make recommendations to the DfT.

 

Responses to emails sent to trade representatives requesting nominations and agreeing dates was poor and the Committee is therefore asked to receive and agree:

 

1. Nominations for membership on the Sub-Group from the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Trades; and
2. A time and date for the first meeting from the following suggestions:

 

• Thursday 3 February – pm
• Friday 4 February – all day
• Monday 7 February -11am to 4 pm
• Thursday 10 February 10 am to 4 pm

A report is to be presented to the Licensing and Regulatory Committee on 17 January 2011 requesting members agree to a policy variation requiring either VRQ or NVQ as the formal qualification for drivers and this has been welcomed by both the hackney carriage and private hire trades.

 

      Mr Jarman has raised the issue of the following resolution of the Licensing and Regulatory Committee held on 27 October 2008, regarding compulsory training of drivers “subject to availability of funding”:

 

Minute No. 26 (4)

 

‘Section (e) the imposition of a requirement for all existing drivers to have attained the National Vocational Qualification (NVQ) within a 5 year period, by 26 October 2013, subject to availability of funding, be agreed with the amendment that the Principal Licensing Enforcement Officer may grant an extension in cases where circumstances have reasonably caused an unavoidable delay in attaining the qualification’.

 

 

Andrew Naisbitt to respond

Mr Jarman states the following:

 

“We think that the system adopted by SMBC and the trade is generally excellent (possibly the exception may be seen in item 1!) There are times when opinion differs and views are expressed; we think that such debates are carried out with respect and propriety. It is therefore with some bewilderment to us that the trade press has recently picked up on issues raised at “LACORS” which is now called “Local Government Regulation”.  

LACORS, the previously named body, has minuted in December 2009 a long document dealing with the taxi and PHV trade (copy sent separately because the Mod.gov system would not accept the document). As one would hope it lists consultees:

 

·         Computer Cab plc supplying car and taxi booking and account services 

·         Department for Transport,   Paul Lawrey, Head of Buses and Taxi Division.

·         Institute of Licensing (IoL)

·         Licensed Private Hire Car Association (LPHCA) the largest trade association representing Private Hire Vehicle Operators?

·         London Taxis International (LTI) who make the TX cab

·         National Association of Licensing Enforcement Officers (NALEO)

·         Public Carriage Office (PCO) (Transport for London) 

·         Taxi Cab News  (trade paper not available here)

·         Taxi Globe (as above)

·         GoSkills  (who failed to reply to queries about training that were agreed by the TLU last year)

 

People may wonder about these organisations and the manifest omission of a recognisable taxi trade organisation; maybe? (No criticism is intended of Mr Lawry of the DfT- he could not comment and is respected anyway.)

 

The minute (at paragraph 7.5 of the document) reads “the maximum fare would not necessarily increase in a taxi as it is usually controlled by the council.

 

This is the conclusion to a discussion of working hours, where the topic is the EU hours of 35 a week, a lofty ideal in an industry where 50 + hours are normal (see the recent survey). The comment quoted however, is breathtaking in its callousness? Only stigmatised political parties would venture to use such a sentiment in a public forum?

 

The following paragraph is just wrong; it suggests placing a “duty of care“on a cab / PHV proprietor in a criminalised context, to govern working hours. The “duty of care” is a common law duty in a civil law context; a criminal offence must involve a specific guilty act and a separate guilty mind – basic criminal concepts taught to a first week police cadet (mens rea, and actus reus).

 

The document then goes on to suggest a regime of fixed penalty notices; with no distinction between a regulatory matter and an offence or crime in the wider world. Clearly a bald tyre is a Road Traffic Act matter (although it may be an offence with no intent), no one other than a police officer or police traffic officer with the same training and obligations should be able to issue that penalty notice.  A police  ...  view the full agenda text for item 7.

Early in 2010 the Council, along with the other Merseyside local authorities were requested by Merseyside Police to try to reach agreement on a standard policy with respect to what is a ‘fit and proper’ person and provide greater transparency as to the criteria considered when issuing driver licenses particularly in relation to sex offences and violence.

 

     Also during that period, a Crown Court judge upheld an appeal against Sefton Council because of its refusal to issue a driver’s licence. Whilst the Judges’ decision was based on evidence previously unavailable to the Council, his Lordship, (whilst acknowledging Sefton officials had acted in accordance with policy). Was concerned that the policy did not adequately consider the severity of offences.

 

After due consideration, the Merseyside Licensing Officers Group agreed in principle, to adopt the new national guidance issued by LGR (Local Government Regulation). Elected members in Liverpool and Wirral have already endorsed this policy and Knowsley and Sefton would expect to complete this process by the end of this calendar year. Consultation with the Trade will commence in early 2011 and it is hoped, this more detailed ‘Fit and Proper’ policy will replace Sefton Council’s outdated ‘Convictions Policy’.

Andrew Naisbitt will update the Group.

To consider the (draft) report of the Environmental and Technical Services Director 

 

The Compliance Testing Station review was originally scheduled to be considered by the Licensing and Regulatory Committee in November 2010, but lacked sufficient detail, which could have led to erroneous conclusions. It is now intended to share the revised report with the Compliance Testing Stations and Trade stakeholders in January 2011. Appendices to the report also include improved guidance for testers of the standards expected. Elected members will be asked to determine the number of approved compliance testing stations and most importantly the issue of whether fleet owners operating compliance testing stations, should test their own vehicles.

 

Andrew Naisbitt will present the draft report. 

The intention is for the final report to be considered by the Licensing and Regulatory Committee on 28 March 2011.

 

 

The Inspection Policy has been developed to assist in ensuring the safety of the travelling public and in response to trade demands for consistent and transparent enforcement and clearly explains when the Council will issue defect or stop notices. The Policy will be circulated for consultation early in 2011.

 

Andrew Naisbitt will provide an update.

There is no doubt that transferring the ‘front office’ licensing function to the Sefton One Stop Shops in 2006 brought about a significant improvement in service delivery and accessibility.

 

The Council has recently received a proposal from its strategic partner Arvato Government Services to migrate the remaining ‘back office’ licensing functions to Sefton Plus. ‘Policy’ and ‘Enforcement’ would remain with the Environmental and Technical Services Department.

 

The proposals should provide a more effective use of resources, minimising double handling of licence applications, greater automation, enhanced service delivery, for example improved turnaround times for applications by the use of online CRB / DVLA checks and increased availability for appointment and knowledge tests. The proposals also look to reduce IT costs and potentially develop a local training and assessment centre facilitating achievement of the VRQ.

 

The proposals are in their infancy but present an opportunity for the Council to further improve the service; much as the initial move to the One Stop Shops did in late 2006.

 

Andrew Naisbitt will provide an update.

Mr Crabtree has raised the following:

 

“The Macrory regulatory principles are attractive, but not applied to the trade. The ongoing problem with regard to PHV behaviour in Southport needs to be addressed, and the only code available is prosecution:

 

We would like to remedy fundamental defects in the regulation of the PHV trade in Southport.

 

Private hire drivers are obtaining their “own” town centre work by parking their vehicles where they are likely to be asked to accept a ‘walk on’ fare, the positioning and constancy of this amounts to ‘ranking’ or ‘touting’. It occurs particularly and regularly at the places listed below.

 

This activity by the PHV trade is consistently taking jobs that are not ordered though licensed operators, to the detriment of the hackney trade which is specifically licensed for this purpose and to stand / ply for hire.

 

We have supplied locations for this activity many times over many years. We started sending pictures in 2004.

 

We list 11 locations:

1.      Lord St in front of the rank up to 4 PHVs.

2.      Lord St at the back of the rank.

3.      Lord St across the road from the rank.

4.      Lord St at the corner of Market St.

5.      The forecourt of the Scarisbrick Hotel.

6.      Coronation St

7.      West St

8.      Waverley St

9.      Hume St

10. Nevill St

11. Cable St

 

These locations are all places where private hire drivers obtain jobs before the public have had the chance to see or walk to the hackney ranks, mostly when local bars are busy.

 

The PHVs “ring fence” the Lord Street Ranks in this way. All the while there are hackneys on the ranks, it is not the case that there insufficient hackneys; there is insufficient work for the PHVs.

 

This behaviour has been apparent since I re-entered the trade in 1997 and has also been apparent to Richard in the last few years.

 

Latterly there have been some successful prosecutions for illegal plying for hire but none for ranking and none for touting.

 

It is to be commended that those successful prosecutions have taken place following test purchases organised by the Trading Standards Department not by the Taxi Licensing Unit.

 

In 2010 only one or two test purchases took place, there needs to be many more this year

 

The problem of PHVs touting and taking ‘taxi / hackney’ work is now been accepted as a problem by “Trading Standards”, but it is nevertheless getting more acute, the recession is deepening in the trade, which is a ‘bellwether’ indicator. Full enforcement is still lacking.

 

The recent prosecutions have resulted in hackney taxi plates being transferred and migrating to the north and put on former PHVs e.g. one firm has 15 of drivers driving hackney vehicles who were previously using PHV plates.  There is therefore an increase in the number hackneys on the town centre ranks in Southport.

 

There is less work due to the recession, and the hackney fleet increase  ...  view the full agenda text for item 12.

Mr. Jarman and Mr. McLaughlin will be invited to provide feedback on their recent attendance at the Transport Select Committee.

John Thompson to provide an update.

Subject to agreement, the next meeting will be held at 10.00 a.m. on Tuesday 24 January 2012, Southport Town Hall.

 

To inform elected members and remind trade representatives of the dates agreed at the Meeting of the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Joint Working Group on 7 December 2010:

 

• Hackney Carriage Trade Working Group Meetings to be held at 9.30 a.m. on:

 

Tuesday   22 March 2011

28 June 2011

27 September 2011

6 December 2011

 

• Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Trade Joint Working Group meetings  to be held at 10.30 a.m. on:

 

Tuesday   22 March 2011

28 June 2011

27 September 2011

6 December 2011

In accordance with Minute No. 37(iii) of the meeting of the Licensing and Regulatory Committee of 24 February 2003, other business may only be considered if agreed by the Chair and a majority of both sections of the trade and it is of an urgent nature, i.e. it requires consideration prior to the next scheduled annual meeting of the Licensing and Regulatory Committee Spokespersons with Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Stakeholders.