Minutes for Licensing and Regulatory Committee Spokespersons with Representatives of the Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Trade meeting, Jan 26 2010, 10.00AM official page

Members and Officers are requested to give notice of any personal or prejudicial interest and the nature of that interest, relating to any item on the agenda in accordance with the relevant Code of Conduct.

Minutes of the Meeting held on 27 January 2009.

At the request of Mr Jones

Further to Minute No. 53 of the meeting held on 8. December 2009, that the Minutes of the meetings of the Joint Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Working Group be circulated prior to publication and that they be titled on the internet as “Provisional”.

At the request of Mr Jarman, Mr crabtree and Mr Jones.

Further to the item deferred from the meeting on 8 December 2009:

(a) “To discuss procedures at meetings, recording of decisions and dissent thereto”.

(b) “ Procedure at meetings, and the relation of the trade to policy makers:

The constitutional position should be clarified, with written material. To include procedure for recording outcomes discussed.

The hackney trade acknowledges that there is an extent to which the authority has management responsibility for the trade. It is fortunate that SMBC has historically an excellent record in that regard. This has been disrupted in that this has in recent months been replaced by unnecessary and bureaucratic procedure. There is / has been insufficient contact with councillors, formal requests to address committee being unnecessarily formulistic.

The relationship between the trade and its governor’s needs restating / discussing.

This discussion item is not directed at personalities.

[For the avoidance of doubt it is agreed that a hackney licence is an annual licence (it may sometimes be shorter). It is not agreed that a further licence must be sought before expiry or that a licensor may not adopt a policy that permits time to elapse between licenses.  Policy may well (and maybe should) take a view on the matter. It may be that jurisprudential issues are involved in the exercise of discretion, it is not agreed that the exercise of discretion can be avoided hitherto this has been accommodated as part of the trade structure

 This was the position prior to August 2009, it had (and has) the support of the trade. No inquiry as to departure from this has yet  been made? ]”

At the request of Mr. Jarman and Mr. Crabtree

“The value of training is acknowledged.

Content of current training is not accurate; even where trainers are corrected examined content remains incorrect, examining bodies are unable / unwilling to respond. There is no or insufficient input to correct / improve content. Training is varied and inconsistent.

Bodies responsible for the various schemes do not respond. (Evidence is available relating thereto.)

At the request of Mr Jarman and Mr crabtree.

“Item 62 of the minutes of the trade meeting 8^TH December to be discussed.

There is no procedure for continued (or corrected) education. There is no structure in place to deal with major new legislation; the Equality Bill is flagged as being complete before May. Significant portions relating to ‘hire and reward’ vehicles are included.

As a result of incorrect training SMBC was requested (by the trade, in June) to confirm that failure to pay for a service is an offence. SMBCas a consequence issues notices to like effect for display in licensed vehicles. Examined training still denies this and says such behaviour is not an offence, although the CPS at the trade’s request agrees otherwise.

It is not acceptable that centres of learning can be unresponsive but remain perceived as providing credible outcomes.

Funding is problematic; sources are indirect, requiring devious routes not proper in context.”

At the request of Mr Jarman and Mr Crabtree

“Additional personnel are needed, and requested, particularly in Southport.

The format of periodic reports of enforcement activity should be updated / reviewed; presently not date specific, for example.

Enforcement would be best not restricted by time.”

At the request of Mr Jarman and Mr Crabtree

“The following items listed for discussion at “L&R” on 8^th January (together with any supporting papers), should be discussed at the annual trade meeting:

a) Review of the Evidence Base for Maintaining or Changing the

Council's Current Hackney Carriage Numerical Restriction Policy and

Revocation of the Policy Relating to the Issue of Hackney Carriage

Vehicle Licences Over and Above the Present Restriction

b) Investigation into the Policies, Procedures and Practices Relating

to the Issue of Hackney Carriage Vehicle Licenses

To discuss also the consultation regime concerning any fresh or new practice and procedure. This should include the form and format thereof; in addition to the substantive matter, if it does not finalise any problem arising.

This item is intended to encompass items 39 (20^th October trade meeting) and 54 (8^th December trade meeting).

This item is to include the terms of engagement of any fresh ‘survey’, poll or other inquiry relating to taxi numbers.

The item is to include the circumstances relating to the licence currently waiting renewal; confirmation that there are 'fit and proper' provisions relating to drivers only. Owners / proprietors are subject to a differing regime (if any).

This item is to include procedural events leading to the failure to re-issue licences, historically and in the future; (FOI information relates and may be referred to).,

For the avoidance of doubt it is re-iterated that this tabled item is worded so as to include those matters of discussion / contention in recent months; albeit that they arise at the behest of the ‘secretariat’ rather than the licence holders.”

At the request of Mr. J. Johnson, representing Tyre Express NW Ltd (Fleet Owners).

“During our last 2 visits to the one stop shop in Bootle we were

subjected to staff giving wrong information and showing aggressive

attitudes towards the trade when staff are clearly in the wrong.

Refusals to license vehicles incorrectly, I have sent a letter of

complaint to the one stop shop and also advised TLU. I feel this needs

raising and discussing as some training issues may be necessary.”

.

At the request of Mr. J. Johnson Tyre Express NW Ltd. (Fleet Owners)

“An update for the group on the application to become an Authorised

Testing Station for taxi & private hire vehicles.”

In accordance with Minute No. 37(iii) of the meeting of the Licensing and Regulatory Committee of 24 February 2003, other business may only be considered if agreed by the Chair and a majority of both sections of the trade and it is of an urgent nature, i.e. it requires consideration prior to the next scheduled annual meeting of the Licensing and Regulatory Committee Spokespersons with Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Stakeholders.